|
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
 |
 |
Imagine the wonderful availability of moving icons if they were rendered with something similar to the electric sheep engine.
Download them as they are created, and assign a new one to every file.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
| |
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 20, @09:06AM EST (#3)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
I know they say they want to combine images with the text, but this only serves to reduce the amount of available screen space to quickly see the actual content itself. Now tell me, how are unique squigle shapes better/quicker to read than natural language? Is an icon with fuzzy dna like look better than the phrase "Launch Missile?" This is the equivalent of a random string generated for every file. I do not want to see WIMP concepts make it into electronic device interfaces.. especially on military vehicles/ships.
There have been usability studies that prove the exact opposite of what the article states, that icons/images are quicker to understand than language. The problem really lies in the layout of the content itself. If you have labelstooclosetoeachother you can't easily or quickly make distinctions between them. The only thing an icon does is provide a bigger surface area for a visual queue. If you were to increase text size and padding around each text link it would be much much better than some iconic metaphor you have to forcefully recall (language is nearly instant). However, such an interface doesn't get press coverage. It gets mocked by 'design experts.'
That is all this work is, more chance for a graphic designer to get his art out there and used/appreciated, under the guise of usability. Though you don't see font designers trying to cram their preference for textual layout down our throats. I wish these people would just stop with their interface guess work.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 20, @09:18AM EST (#4)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
Sorry to reply to myself, but if you read http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/ you'll understand what I am talking about. This person is only a graphic designer. Quotes like "user interfaces need scenery, and suitable scenery can be invented with computer graphics techniques" just get to me. This is a graphic designer automatically thinking he knows what a user interface needs because he seems to think it looks better with it. I really think this is the same way almost all PC GUI usability studies are done today. Things are better in general electronics interfaces. Possibly because PC interfaces are dynamic and there are so many different ones because of the software application model. Another reason for a humane interface, http://humane.sf.net.
|
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 23, @05:00AM EST (#5)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
hyy, did you actually _read_ the article?
They describe quite a few user studies that support their idea,
and followup with several of their own. And one of the authors
is an MIT psychologist.
Regarding "Launch Missile", I recall reading a with-hindsight
account of when the US shot down an Iranian airliner in 1998 or so. One of the factors involved was a confusing display.
This may not be the same scenario, but if some hypothetical display of targets has only text labels T1, T2, T3, ... I can imagine it would be difficult to locate the right one in a hurry.
You're probably misunderstanding the main point hwever: it doesn't seem to require bigger icons, but rather, doing something with the icon space that already exist.
|
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
 |
 |
|
all this work is, more chance for a graphic designer to get his art out there
The second poster above took a brief look at one of the pictures and
decided this is an exercise in graphic arts. Not so, the
icons are all automatically generated. (Please take the time
to read the abstract).
There have been usability studies that prove the exact opposite of what the article states, that icons/images are quicker to understand than language.
Actually the article says that icons/image are quicker to search
and are more easily remembered than text labels. It does not refer
to "understanding".
The article also does not propose putting labelstooclosetoeachother.
Rather, it shows that,
if all other things are equal (spacing, icon size,
text label, etc.), people perform better if the icon is distinctive
than if generic,
and shows how distinctive icons can be generated
automatically.
Some of the pictures are high resolution; these assume that
in the future there will be more resolution, or zoomable icons
(OS/X has this somewhat already). But the user studies
were done with standard 64x64 icons.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
 |
 |
|
Images take longer to recall than language.. this is a fact.
You might be more persuasive by giving some evidence,
especially since there is a lot of evidence
pointing in the other direction:
A Paivio, Pictures and words in visual search. Memory & Cognition 2, 3, 515-521, 1974.
(searching for images is faster than for words)
R. Shepard, Recognition memory for words, sentences, and pictures. J. Verbal Learning Verbal Behavior 6, 156-163, 1967,
(memory for images is better than for words or sentences)
More recently,
Jerymyn et. al., The Design and Analysis of Graphical Passwords - 1999
They summarize,
"Cognitive scientists and psychologists have shown that there is a substantial improvement of performance in recall and recognition with pictorial representations of to be remembered material than for verbal representations.
...
Studies exhibiting strikingly high differences in memory recall of pictures over words have since been replicated on numerous occasions [She67, Sta73, NRW76, BSH77]."
And lastly see the two studies reported in the paper under discussion,
which cover both search speed and memory for the invented icons.
The advantages of appearance over text are also evident
in daily life --
books and cars are two types of object that have both a textual
label (title or license plate) and an appearance. When you
look for a particular book on a bookshelf, you don't scan titles one-by-one.
You _could_ do this, but it's much faster to search by appearance,
and then verify the title if there is any ambiguity.
Likewise, you don't look for your car in a parking lot
by examining each and every license plate.
Similarly, memory for appearance seems intuitively to be better
than memory for words. I have a lot of books, and while
I can always remember the appearance of a book, sometimes
remembering the title takes a moment of concentration, or worse,
it is forgotten. The converse, remembering the title while having
no idea of the appearance, seems unimaginable.
It's not just me; in my experience, people commonly
say things like "have you seen that little red travel guidebook for England",
indicating that they know the book's subject and its appearance,
but they've forgotten the exact title.
He does not study the difference between having just text and no icons.
This has been studied by other people, e.g. the Byrne reference in the
paper. In summary, it is questionable whether generic icons help at all.
However, if there are several classes of generic icons, e.g. distinct icons
for a Word file versus an Excel file, Byrne states that people
make use of this, by first scanning for files of the desired type by
appearance, then searching the filenames (similar to the way
we look for books or cars).
(I also apologize for posting this response at the top level,
but the whole discussion got started at this level so I'll continue
here).
|
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 23, @06:28PM EST (#9)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
The subject article is about file navigation. Not about finding your car in a parking lot or a book in the library.
Cars, books, and file navigation are all different. The brain uses many processes and many senses to find a car you parked and even possibly by remembering the name or number of the row/level you parked it in. To even find a book you need to use names of sections and the alphabet/dewey decimal system. Would you start at the first book you see when entering a library and start visually scanning all of the covers until you find the one you wanted.. completely ignoring the label? Of course, if you're trying to remember where a book was and you've been to the library and seen the book already you'll have a visual memory of the library and where the book is almost exactly. This is in my opinion a rare use of a library or book store.
Do computer terminals at libraries have image galleries of the covers of books or do they have a text search function so you can quickly find where the book(s) you want are located? Even if I know what a book looks like (say I learned from Amazon or Google) I still use the dewey decimal system and possibly a computer to search for the title. Only if someone moved the title out of order would I finally have to look for it by cover.. a task that I do not look forward to. Bindings are less than 1" thick usually.. try looking for that in between hundreds of books per section.
Perhaps a better example for you to provide would be a movie store. But then here again, the cover represents the contents. It is symbolic of the contents, not just a random icon that looks slightly different than others. It also has a prominent title and each movie is separated into different sections. Also, the first thing most people do when they enter a movie rental store is to look at the new releases letter board to see what is new.. then they follow the alphabet to those new movies.
When in the real world we rely on all our senses because the world is multi dimensional and because we can physically go to these places and move around in them. All of this greatly adds to our memory because of all of our senses.
The license plate example makes no sense unless you're a cop trying to find a car. Also I fail to see the connection between an icon and a car or book because the car and book is the content!
When you're on a computer you are restricted to a +/- 17" representation of information. You have a keyboard, mouse, and the monitor. You don't build up a natural recollection of where you are.
Text and icons are both symbolic, while text is also (typically) informative about the content of the file itself. If the file's content is an image you could also have the symbolic information be a thumbnail of the content. The text can be part of the content if no filename was given and as you zoom into the interface more and more you can see more of the content. An icon in this case would only serve to get in the way.
I think the only thing icons provide are good examples of white space. You typically have icons in a nice clean grid with even spacing around each. This spacing allows for easier visual parsing of content. It acts like a virtual box around a title. This can also be done with text or a zoomable thumbnail of content, but is unfortunately rarely ever done.
I have heard about two of those studies referenced, I do not have my own studies to reference because I have not done any. But as you said he says in terms of file systems that the benefit is minimal. I don't think he's studied it well enough if he didn't compare it directly to text only file labels.. nor any zooming content interface.
The FAQ is good on the VisualID site, it brings up each of the cases I am arguing. He however fails to answer many of them comprehensively or with studies of his own. I too have not accomplished such a task but plan to in the software/ui I am developing. I also do not like the file oriented approach he is using. I think both files and applications are poor concepts. This too needs to be studied more.
I'm sure that icons could serve useful in some cases. But I don't believe filesystems are one of those cases. I could be entirely wrong of course when considering the general populous, the only test case I've done is on myself and with my work. I don't use any iconic file browsers or interfaces (other than those I am forced to by the web).
|
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 24, @09:56AM EST (#10)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
This whole conversation look like trying to find out if Adam can run faster than Bob or not, by looking at the speed of the space elevator.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 24, @12:01PM EST (#11)
|
|
 |
 |
 |
That really made no sense at all.. and even if that was the point you're not adding a single thing to the conversation when trying to make such a point. This was a good conversation and it does come down to both science and preference. If you've used any system long enough your mind begins to adapt as much as possible. There are so many external factors that I think, barring absolute negligence on part of the UI designer, for normal people most solutions will be okay.
There are of course other factors to think about here.
Those with special needs like the blind or deaf use systems that scale to their needs which considerably benefit them or even enable them to use a computer. I don't think this project especially helps with either case but they do mention some future research in that area.
Anyway, small scale studies such as those that were administered really can go either way or follow the researchers' point of view (accidently of course). In the end personal preference usually wins over scientific usability studies.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|